Comments on: Too Much Bible? http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:10:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Worth a Look « Just Wondering http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-2096 Worth a Look « Just Wondering Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:55:04 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-2096 [...] wondered about this in the past, particularly in light of Stanley Hauerwas’ inflammatory words on the subject. I am not disputing the authority of the Bible over the practice of the church. The [...] [...] wondered about this in the past, particularly in light of Stanley Hauerwas’ inflammatory words on the subject. I am not disputing the authority of the Bible over the practice of the church. The [...]

]]> By: Incoming... http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-141 Incoming... Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:32:34 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-141 for my answer i will welcome you to my own blog... for my answer i will welcome you to my own blog…

]]> By: Gil http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-139 Gil Fri, 30 Sep 2005 19:11:49 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-139 Dale,<br/>I would hope that we would expect SOMETHING in the way of divine intervention in our interpretation of the bible. But the brutal fact is that we all know examples of people horribly misusing scripture in order to validate their own agenda. That is the value of the community, to guard against something like that. <br/>If I understand you right you are saying that the point is not to 'learn the facts about God', the point is to know God. This I agree with wholeheartedly. But Jeff's point is well taken as well. I have found myself 'getting to know God' during times when I have learned more about him (even in an abstract sense). The two have to go together. <br/>In the words of a book I'm reading: "No matter how much you love theology, it will never love you back." Dale,
I would hope that we would expect SOMETHING in the way of divine intervention in our interpretation of the bible. But the brutal fact is that we all know examples of people horribly misusing scripture in order to validate their own agenda. That is the value of the community, to guard against something like that.
If I understand you right you are saying that the point is not to ‘learn the facts about God’, the point is to know God. This I agree with wholeheartedly. But Jeff’s point is well taken as well. I have found myself ‘getting to know God’ during times when I have learned more about him (even in an abstract sense). The two have to go together.
In the words of a book I’m reading: “No matter how much you love theology, it will never love you back.”

]]> By: Jessica http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-137 Jessica Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:43:45 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-137 I had an unrelated question about Hauerwas.... What did he mean when he said something about that "the dea could be reconciled to eachother"... It was in his talk about war and such. Just throwing it out there. Maybe you guys can explain what he meant. I had an unrelated question about Hauerwas…. What did he mean when he said something about that “the dea could be reconciled to eachother”… It was in his talk about war and such. Just throwing it out there. Maybe you guys can explain what he meant.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-135 Jeffrey Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:32:49 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-135 What's the difference between "discovering truth" and "getting to know God in a participatory relationship?"<br/><br/>I think this might be contradictory, at least for me, because I usually discover truth in my participatory relationship with God. Is there something I am missing here? What’s the difference between “discovering truth” and “getting to know God in a participatory relationship?”

I think this might be contradictory, at least for me, because I usually discover truth in my participatory relationship with God. Is there something I am missing here?

]]> By: Incoming... http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-134 Incoming... Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:04:04 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-134 well i would pressume to think that the process of interpretation is a discipline to discover truth. If we think that ultimate truth resides in the very nature of God and not in the subjective whims of human beings either collectively or individually, then our role no longer becomes discovery and defense of truth (especially from our own finite perspective) but really more about getting know God in a participatory relationship. we have made truth into a science project that requires these fantastic specific skills and environmental conditions but when you look at scripture - that stuff never made difference to God. When he wanted to reveal truth he just did it. and He made sure we got it whether it was through the arrival of his son as you mentioned, through an ass, or through a burning bush. Through disciples cloistered away in prayer and fasting and individually on the road to damascus. I'm just saying this community vs individual arguement is really not what we should be talking about - cause it's not the point. so if Gil or anyone wants to drag us one way or the other great but i think the fact that it's about community vs. the individual points to how humanistic we are in all of this.<br/>blah blah blah<br/>Jesus... well i would pressume to think that the process of interpretation is a discipline to discover truth. If we think that ultimate truth resides in the very nature of God and not in the subjective whims of human beings either collectively or individually, then our role no longer becomes discovery and defense of truth (especially from our own finite perspective) but really more about getting know God in a participatory relationship. we have made truth into a science project that requires these fantastic specific skills and environmental conditions but when you look at scripture - that stuff never made difference to God. When he wanted to reveal truth he just did it. and He made sure we got it whether it was through the arrival of his son as you mentioned, through an ass, or through a burning bush. Through disciples cloistered away in prayer and fasting and individually on the road to damascus. I’m just saying this community vs individual arguement is really not what we should be talking about - cause it’s not the point. so if Gil or anyone wants to drag us one way or the other great but i think the fact that it’s about community vs. the individual points to how humanistic we are in all of this.
blah blah blah
Jesus…

]]> By: Nathan http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-133 Nathan Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:55:28 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-133 I would like to step in and say that while I do agree with Stanley that we as North American Christians do not exhibit “The level of transformation we should expect.” And I agree that the Bible does need to be read within the context of a committed group of disciples (or a hermeneutical community to use a big fancy Bible school word). However, I think that there is a fatal flaw in the whole concept. Jeffery said, “In every case of every book in the Bible, it was written for public hearing or used that way before the canon was formed.” However this public interpretation still led to inaction and apathy on the part of the nation of Israel. If Interpretation in a hermeneutical community is going to lead people to level of transformation that God is pleased with, then the Pharisees would have been right on track. However, their actions were still in desperate need of being changed. I think before we let the pendulum swing too far back we need to remember that our past is also full of apathetic untransformed, sinners, who are doing their best to know Christ. I would like to step in and say that while I do agree with Stanley that we as North American Christians do not exhibit “The level of transformation we should expect.” And I agree that the Bible does need to be read within the context of a committed group of disciples (or a hermeneutical community to use a big fancy Bible school word). However, I think that there is a fatal flaw in the whole concept. Jeffery said, “In every case of every book in the Bible, it was written for public hearing or used that way before the canon was formed.” However this public interpretation still led to inaction and apathy on the part of the nation of Israel. If Interpretation in a hermeneutical community is going to lead people to level of transformation that God is pleased with, then the Pharisees would have been right on track. However, their actions were still in desperate need of being changed. I think before we let the pendulum swing too far back we need to remember that our past is also full of apathetic untransformed, sinners, who are doing their best to know Christ.

]]> By: Jerry http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-132 Jerry Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:36:14 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-132 What's with all this pickling going on? <br/><br/>Anyways, Pickled Seminarian, I don't understand why you think truth needs to "defend itself". And I think God did "reveal himself in his own way" through Jesus. What’s with all this pickling going on?

Anyways, Pickled Seminarian, I don’t understand why you think truth needs to “defend itself”. And I think God did “reveal himself in his own way” through Jesus.

]]> By: Incoming... http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-130 Incoming... Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:50:41 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-130 okay fine if interpretation is strictly a human function and we belive in no divine intervention in the interpretation process than we can debate the individual vs. the community till the snow stops falling in hepburn. and by the way i should say...<br/>Jeff, i'm guessing that the reason this community interpretation does not work is that our 'communities' (churches) are often little more than exclusive clubs where we have taken the liberty to decide who is in and who is out.<br/>what is clear is that intrepretation is not a strictly human function. scripture shows that God is not restricted in the method he chooses for revealing himself to mankind. our attempt to put confines on how he chooses to reveal himself leads to our own arrogance.<br/>Another problem is our incresing sense that we are the climax of knowledge and wisdom. this has little to do in my view with individual vs. other ways of interpretation but more about our own selfish desire to construct a God in our own image. It bothers me that we would use this kind of thinking to further our perverse practice of exclusion in our churches. and it bothers me that we have become so glib and careless in our own personal versions of the Bible. (I predict that the next tech break through will be some form of self interpretation of the Bible software.) That said but i don't think that's the point at all. Does truth defend itself? Does God reveal himself in his own way? Does Paul know how to suck me into a comment? okay fine if interpretation is strictly a human function and we belive in no divine intervention in the interpretation process than we can debate the individual vs. the community till the snow stops falling in hepburn. and by the way i should say…
Jeff, i’m guessing that the reason this community interpretation does not work is that our ‘communities’ (churches) are often little more than exclusive clubs where we have taken the liberty to decide who is in and who is out.
what is clear is that intrepretation is not a strictly human function. scripture shows that God is not restricted in the method he chooses for revealing himself to mankind. our attempt to put confines on how he chooses to reveal himself leads to our own arrogance.
Another problem is our incresing sense that we are the climax of knowledge and wisdom. this has little to do in my view with individual vs. other ways of interpretation but more about our own selfish desire to construct a God in our own image. It bothers me that we would use this kind of thinking to further our perverse practice of exclusion in our churches. and it bothers me that we have become so glib and careless in our own personal versions of the Bible. (I predict that the next tech break through will be some form of self interpretation of the Bible software.) That said but i don’t think that’s the point at all. Does truth defend itself? Does God reveal himself in his own way? Does Paul know how to suck me into a comment?

]]> By: Gil http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-126 Gil Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:43:17 +0000 http://hepburnmusings.wordpress.com/2005/09/28/too-much-bible/#comment-126 I agree there is a risk with how we decide who gets to interpret. Ultimately the answer is (as you say Paul) some kind of a community hermeneutic. The possibility of abuse increases when one voice dominates. The problem is we all know that not everyone interprets the Bible well. <br/>What Hauerwas challenges me to see is that the Bible belongs to the church (as a gift from God of course). The church interprets and the church interprets FOR THE PURPOSE OF changed lives. I agree there is a risk with how we decide who gets to interpret. Ultimately the answer is (as you say Paul) some kind of a community hermeneutic. The possibility of abuse increases when one voice dominates. The problem is we all know that not everyone interprets the Bible well.
What Hauerwas challenges me to see is that the Bible belongs to the church (as a gift from God of course). The church interprets and the church interprets FOR THE PURPOSE OF changed lives.

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